Ask Steve the Ump
Answers to Rules Questions

Questions and answers will be posted at my discretion, as I have the opportunity to do so. All answers are purely my personal opinion. Thanks to Jim Evans for compiling his Professional Baseball Rules Index, which is invaluable in providing reasonably correct responses.  Additional answers can be found here.

Runner on 3rd, 1 out, 3-2 count on batter. Runner steals home but ball hits runner in strike zone as he's crossing the plate. What's the call? Does the run score?
Craig Campbell
Michigan - 1/4/12

See 5.09(h): Any legal pitch touches a runner trying to score; runner advance.

Is a runner out if he is struck by a fair ball while standing on a base. If so or not, what about the batter runner?
Don
Chicopee, MA - 12/7/11

Any runner is out when struck by a fair batted ball while on a base unless it is an infield fly. The batter-runner gets first.

This happened last night in a 16U tournament playing under 2011 NFHS rules. R3 with 2 outs and 3 balls on batter. Wild pitch results in ball 4 and R3 scoring. Defensive team protests illegal bat of player that walked and umpire determines the bat was in fact illegal as it was a (-5), all before the next pitch.  Is the batter out and does R3's run count? Are both the batter and the head coach ejected?  My lean: The batter is out and the run does not score based on the out being recorded at the time of the pitch, meaning runners must be returned to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch.  Both the batter and the head coach are ejected. 
Gregory Stiegler
Texas - 11/21/11

The rules state: The batter is out and all runners return to the base occupied at the start of the at-bat.  Any runner advance that did not come as a result of the plate appearance (balk, stolen base, etc.) are permitted. The illegal bat must be discovered before the first pitch to the next batter. The bat is illegal, the appeal was proper, the batter is out for the third out, no run scores. The walk is irrelevant. The fact that it is a wild pitch does make the interpretation complicated, but the offense can not gain anything on this play with 2 out.  Since the batter-runner does not get to first safely with 2 out, no run can score. No run can score when the third out is made by the batter-runner not reaching first base safely. See Scoring Runs. If there was one out at the time of the at-bat, the batter would be out and the run would count. If it takes place with less than 2 out, the provision referrring to not advancing as a result of the plate appearance would apply. There are no ejections applicable under the rules.

Phillies last out was by Ryan Howard who blew out his achillies and colasped 10 feet from batters box on a ground out. If that was a home run and he couldn't circle the bases, what would have happened?
Wayne Veal
E. Rutherford, NJ - 10/9/11

If the ball is hit out of the park (4-base dead ball award), a pinch runner can take the batter-runner's place and run the bases to complete the home run.

Bases loaded  two out in the bottom half of the 7th inning score tied and the batter walks forcing in the winning run.  When this happens the base runner at first begins to celebrate the win and does not advance to second. The team in the field appeals at second and the runner is called out.  Does the run score or not?
Ron Sahm
10/3/11

If the infielders have not left the field, the runner has left the field (abandoned running the bases) and it is a proper appeal, this is a force out and the run does not count.

If there are bases loaded, 2 outs and a batter hits a home run, then proceeds to pass the runner on first base, he is called out which ends the inning.  The question is: if the runner on third touches home plate before the batter is called out, does the run count?
Kent Norgren
Boulder, Co.-  8/27/11

This is not a time play. A home run is technically a dead ball 4 base award. If the batter-runner touched 1st before passing the runner on 1st at the time of the pitch and since the 3rd out was not on a force play, the batter-runner is out for the 3rd out and all 3 runners score.

Runners on 1st and 3rd,1 out-fly ball hit to outfield is caught for 2nd out. Both runners took off never tagging up, thinking ball would not be caught. Runner on 3rd scored . After ball was caught, fielder threw to 1st for 3rd out since runner did not tag up. If ball is not thrown to 3rd for essentally 4th out, would the run count?
Tony Roberts
Grove Hill, Al. - 7/19/11

Yes.  The runner scores pending appeal.

American legion playoff game: 2 outs, 2 strikes on batter swings and misses the the pitch is the dirt, dropped 3rd strike, ball bounces off the catcher and rolls into fair territory and hits the batter in fair territory as he is running to first. Is the batter runner out for being hit with a live ball in fair territory?
Joe Tornello
Charlottesville,VA,USA - 7/17/11

No.  It is not a batted ball, assuming that it was not intentional.

There is one out and a runner on first. The batter hits a fly ball to center and the center fielder dives for the ball but drops it. The original runner on first went to second but thought the center fielder caught the ball so starts back to first. By doing so the batter passes the runner and proceeds to score. The original runner then realizes that the fielder dropped the ball and turns and he scores. Who should be out and should any runs count?
Bill Madar
Parma, Ohio - 6/13/11

The batter-runner is immediately out when he passes the runner.  The ball remains live and in play.  The original runner scores.

Bases loaded, bottom of 9th, 2 outs, tie score. Base on balls to batter.  Runner on 3rd reaches home and is mobbed by team.  Runner on 2nd joins mob before touching 3rd, does the run score?
Gregory Smith
Grand Junction, CO - 6/1/11

He scores pending appeal. If the defense leaves the field, they forfeit their right to appeal.  If they appeal before leaving the field, the 3rd out is a force out, the run does not score and the game goes into the 10th.

My son plays baseball in WI.  They follow NFHS rules.  I issue came up about a bunt being a strike simply holding the bat over the plate.  I need you help! Here is the ump's response:
Hi Dan.  As follow-up and fyi I maintain my original opinion that holding the bat out over the plate is an attempted swing (or strike at the ball) and thus is a strike regardless of where the pitch is.  There is no rule 2.0 in the NFHS 2011 rule book.  My judgment remains the same based on rule 7-2b "a strike is charged to the batter when: a pitch is struck at and missed (even if the pitch touches the batter)."  I am not familiar with who that is you referred to in your links below but I have to go by what I see in the NFHS 2011 official rule book.  I have not found any specific description regarding holding the bat out over the plate as not being a strike in the rule book.  Therefore in my judgment I believe rule 7-2b to be what best explains this situation.  In my opinion I believe the bat being left out over the plate for an attempted bunt as a strike or swing at the ball.  I would be happy to reconsider my opinion should there be a specific rule pointed out that I can see explains this situation.
Dan, Wellman
Brookfield, WI - 5/31/11

Holding the bat out over the plate is not an attempt to bunt or a swing, hence not a strike. The pitch must be in the strike zone or an attempt must be made at striking the ball.  However, in federation softball, this was changed to a strike for 2011.  Since your responder is an umpire, he must not have read the NFHS baseball case book.  Many rulings can be found there which are not in the rule book proper.  Page 57, ""The mere holding of the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to bunt."

After the third out is made and the teams are exchanging sides, F4 picks up the ball and in jest throws a warm-up pitch to the catcher. Is he now a pitcher? In my opinion, NO. Although he may become an unreported substitute, play has yet to commence and therefore should not be made to play that position.
Bob Brown
York, PA - 5/23/11

If he throws one warm-up pitch from the rubber, he must pitch to a minimum of one batter.

Bases loaded. Pitcher delivers pitch to catcher. Runner on first proceeds to second (steal attempt). The runner on second stays on the base. True or false: the runner caught in the base path can be put out by tagging first base with ball in hand. The runner does not have to be tagged to be out unless the runner on second leaves the base toward third, correct? Just happened tonight.  Thank you.
David Yoho
Louisville, KY - 5/17/11

He must be tagged.

Situation:  Bases loaded and base hit to left center field that the left fielder fields.  Runner at 3rd base scores easily but runner from second rounding third base collides with third basemen and both fall down.  Delayed interference is indicated by home plate umpire.  At this time, runner from first base rounds second base hard heading towards third and would have made it easily but sees runner ahead of him and third basemen are on the ground and stops.  He heads back to second base and left fielder throws behind him with second basemen on the bag and tags him out.  This happened in my game last night.  Why would the runner rounding second base at a minimum be rewarded second base?  He obviously stopped because he saw the two players on the ground ahead of him at third base and retreated back to second. 
Eric Christian
Wyanet, Illinois - 5/12/11

This is the type of play one really needs to see.  Based on your description, the runner from 2nd is obstructed.  This is a delayed dead ball.  He would be awarded home at the end of playing action.  The runner from first is a judgment call.  The rule does refer to other runners affected by the obstruction.  If in the umpires judgment he would have reached 3rd, he would be awarded 3rd base.  If in the umpires judgment he would not have reached 3rd, the out would stand. With the ball in left field, he very well may not have been able to reach 3rd safely.

Bases loaded, 2 outs, the hitter hits the ball to short centerfield, the runner from 1st Base is out at 2nd base ( the throw to 2nd by the CF beats the runner to 2nd) but the runner who is fast crosses home plate before the runner is out at 2nd base. The questions is: Does the run count because he touched home plate before the out at 2nd base?
Neil
Brooklyn, NY - 5/11/11

No, the run does not count.  The 3rd out is made on a force out.

The batter swings at the third strike and misses...the catcher drops the ball. The batters follow through with the bat makes contact with the ball that the catcher has dropped, knocking it out of reach. Is the batter out for interference?
Dave Wiley
Arizona - 5/5/11

Yes.  Any runners go back.

Runners on second and third, one out.  Batter hits a low liner to center.  Runner on second thinks it will drop and runs towards third, while runner on third tags. Centerfielder catches the line drive at his feet and trips a little.  Then the runner on third , after tagging correctly, heads for home. Centerfielder gets control and throws home.  The pitcher, realizing the runner has crossed home, cuts off the throw and then throws to second to get runner who did not tag up.  This makes the third out, a force out, but it comes after the runner crossed home plate.  Question: Does the run count?
Jeff
Fallbrook, Ca.- 5/3/11

This is not a force out.  The runner on 2nd is not forced to 3rd.  The run scores.

Can a coach have a stopwatch in the coaches box?  I am guessing no.
Nate Rykal
Green Bay, WI - 4/15/11

Under NFHS rules, a stopwatch is permitted.

I umpire High School baseball in the spring (NFHS) and Legion and VFW in the summer (Major League rules).  At a rules meeting this week, we discussed the obstruction rule in the NFHS rule book.  In the rules, it states the runner gets one base past the one he had legally obtained.  The play we discussed was a pick-off play on a base runner leading off at second base.  I am unclear on the correct NFHS rule interpretation if the runner is obstructed.  In the Major League rule book, I believe the runner would be awarded second base, regardless of safe or out.  However, with the rule stated differently in the high school rule book, would the runner be awarded third? Or would the ruling matter if the runner was out or safe on the play? We came up with a good idea of the interpretation, I am just not confident we made the correct one.  If there is any insight you could provide, I would greatly appreciate it.  Love the resources your site provides... thank you for the great source for umpire information!
Peder Lunde
Sioux Falls, SD - 3/23/11

This is type a obstruction in Pro ball (7.06a). "If a play is being made on an obstructed runner...the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the base they would have reached, in the umpires judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction."  That means third base.  This is just obstruction under NFHS rules (2-2-2, 8-3-2).  "When a runner is obstructed (2-2-2) when advancing or returning to a base, the umpire shall award the obstructed runner...the bases they would have reached, in his opinion, there had been no obstruction....The obstructed runner is awarded a minimum of one base beyond his position on base when the obstruction occurred."  That also means third base.  An out or safe call on the play is irrelevant under both codes.

In baseball, the lower and upper edge of the strike zone is determined by the batters stance. What is the smallest possible distance between those edges - or in other way - how much can the batter crouch to make the strike zone as smallest as possible (lets consider he doesn't want to hit, just earn walk). Would the umpire really let that batter to speculate like this with out any persecution? Or would he just set the strike zone according to his view?
Kajo
Bratislava, Slovakia, Europe - 2/18/11

The height of the strike zone is determined by the batter's normal batting stance.  If he crouches or leans over in order to make the shoulder line lower, the umpire determines height by what would be the batter's normal stance. The bottom is determined by the knees.

NFHS rules: One out, runner on second, line drive hits second baseman's glove then hits the 2nd base umpire, then is caught by the centerfielder.  Do you have a catch, is it umpires interference or is the ball still live
Lynn Snow
Waukomis, Oklahoma - 2/3/11

When the ball strikes and umpire or a offensive player and is then caught as in your example, it is not a catch. (Rule 2-9-1).  The ball remains live.

1st and 3rd-the runner at 1st takes his lead by backing up more than 3 feet  towards RF. Is his baseline now established from where he begins towards second base? If the 1st Baseman plays on the 2nd base side of the runner and we throw to the 1st baseman who will have the ball and be between the runner and 2nd base. If the runner has established his baseline as being 5 feet behind 1st base, will he be out when he tries to go BACK to first or is he allowed to have what is essentially a triangular baseline?
Luis Venitucci
Austin, Texas - 1/27/11

Yes, the baseline is established from his position behind 1st base toward whichever base he heads to.  A throw to the 2nd baseman in that position is most likely a throw to an unoccupied base and a balk. The runner's base path is established from where he is to where he is going.  If he changes direction, he has established a new base path. There is no "triangular" base path.

What if a coach requests TO for an injury to F1 & it's his 2nd visit to the mound that inning with the same pitcher. Is the coach circumventing the charged conference limitations by requesting a TO to visit F1 for the 2nd time by placing him at a different defensive position after the visit? Or, is it still not a charged conference if the coach's request comes prior to the trip out to the mound for an injury?  I ruled no charged trip on the coach's request during a recent American Legion game (Pro Rules). Some colleagues believe the coach was attempting to circumvent the trip rule by requesting a TO for an injury.
Pete Ververis
Norwich, CT - 12/1/10

You are correct.  I must point out, however, that it is your job to follow the coach to the mound and monitor exactly what is said and done. The coach must first clear the visit with the plate umpire before coming on the field if it to be a non-charged conference.  If he has already crossed the foul line, it's a charged conference.  In 20 years, I have never seen that happen. We can't read minds, and I would never want to refuse a visit for a injury especially in a game being played by kids. If you are there monitoring the conference, there would be nothing to gain other than a slight delay in the progress of the game.  The player's position can be switched without the coach coming on the field.

I have a baseball player that has a Easton Sc900 Stealth Bat Optiflex Reg BESR Certified -3.  It is a BST8 33" 30 oz 2 5/8" barrel.  Can you tell me if this bat is legal for 2010 based on the new rules.  We are confused on the changes.
Ronnie Gibbs
Ironton, MO - 8/25/10

The BESR standard is still in effect for 2010-2011 seasons for HS ball.  The new BBCOR standard is in effect 1/1/2012. For NCAA, the change takes place for the 2011 season.  See: BBCOR.htm

Man on 1st..dropped third strike..man on 1st takes off for second, batter runs up the line about half way, when the 1st basemen catches the throw from home he's not on the bag and comes down the line to make the tag and the runner start to back up toward home to avoid being tagged. Is the batter runner out for backing up or not until he's tagged? or?? do we call him out for backing up right off?.
Harry Kipp
Yelm, Washington - 8/19/10

The batter is out if he retreats to and touches the plate.

Can a high school catcher in Georgia wear a two piece helmet (batting helmet style cap with face mask instead of a hockey style helmet and facemask?
Jeff
Atlanta, Georgia - 8/7/10

Yes, but only if they were manufactured, tested and approved as a single unit.

First baseman holding runner on base with one foot completely out of fair territory.  Pitcher pitches to batter and pitch is called a strike.  Since first baseman's foot is out of fair territory, what is the call?  According to rule, I don't see a penalty for this even though everyone is supposed to be in fair territory.  I believe a warning should be issued and if it happens again, a sportsmanship call (mockery of game) be called against first baseman.  I don't think a balk can be be called, either.  Please provide detailed ruling.
David Beheler
Lincolnton, North Carolina - 6/16/10

There is no call here.  The PBUC Umpire Manual clear states (3.16) that the umpires not insist that he play with both feet in fair territory unless the offensive team protests.  In that case, the ruling should be enforced against both teams.  If a 1st baseman persists, the only penalty would be ejection.

Runners in first and second base, there is an attempt by the runner in second base to steal third base, the catcher attempts to make the play at third but when he makes his throw to third base it hit the batter's bat who had remained in the batter's box after the pitch has been delivered. The ball goes into the home team's dugout and the runners advance on base. I argued that there was an interference by the batter as it prevented, unaware perchance, the play taken place at second. What is you view of it? Was the umpire right in allowing the runners to advance one base or does the ball become dead when it hit the batter? please e-mail me your answer as soon as you can as we have put the game under protest and have three days in which we must go ahead with the appeal or retire our protest.
Pedro Figueras
London, United Kingdom - 6/14/10

The umpire is mostly correct.  The batter can not de-materialize.  If the batter holds his position in the box, it is up to the catcher to make a proper throw. The ball remains live until it goes out of play.  The runner is awarded 2 bases.

A player was ejected from the game. Is it an automatic out each time his turn at bat comes up? What exceptions to the rule are there i.e. injuries. Thanks Steve. Great site.
Mark Davis
Oxford, Michigan - 6/12/10

An ejected player must be replaced.  Under Pro rules, if there is no replacement available, the game is a forfeit.
Some leagues modify the rules to allow a team to play with 8.  Some provide for an automatic out each time the spot comes up, others provide for an automatic out the first time the spot comes up only. Check with the league. I've never heard of an injury exception.

Runners on 1B and 3B, with two outs. Ground ball is hit to 2B. Fielder tags out runner going to 2B after runner from 3B has crossed HP. Does the run count? I'm thinking no, but need to be sure.
Dave Beste
Brookings, SD - 5/26/10

It's still a force out and the run does not score.

Sharp hit ball down 1st base line, bounds off 1st baseman's gloves and rolls in to foul territory.  1st baseman retrieves and with ball in glove reaches to touch 1st base with free hand.  Safe or out?   And would this apply to any other force at any base?
Ron Mitchell
Westminster, South Carolina,  USA - 5/24/10

Out if he beats the batter-runner to 1st base, and yes.

Can an outfielder catch a ball by the fence and fall over the breakaway fence - is it an out or homerun?
John Deutsch
Annanadale, NJ - 5/17/10

If the ball is caught and the outfielder falls over the fence in possession, it's a catch.  If the pushes his way through the fence and then makes the catch, it's a HR.

What is the penalty for illegal defensive substitution? Example: 2 players in the same batting position on the field at the same time.
Andrew Bettinger
Richmond, VA - 5/11/10

The illegal substitute would be ejected upon discovery.  If he was discovered directly after being involved in a play, the opposing coach would have the choice of taking the play or the batter batting again.

The infield huddled at the pitcher mound and went back to their positions. The 2nd baseman has the ball hidden in his glove.  The pitcher is on the pitcher's mound.  Believe he was on the rubber. The runner leads off of 2nd base waiting to steal. The 2nd baseman tags the runner and umpire calls him out. The coaches from the other team tells the umpire the pitcher was on the pitcher mound, therefore, the out is not valid.  Is this true?
Hollie Vestel
Jacksonville, FL/USA - 4/21/10

Under HS rules, if he is on or astride the rubber or within approx. 5 feet of the of the rubber without the ball it is a balk and the runner is not out. (6-2-5)

Runner going from 1st to 2nd on a hit to to shortstop. SS throws to 2nd baseman, runner goes in straight up and then 2nd has to throw a lob to 1st. I need a ruling on sliding, according to high school rules.
Philip
McKinney, Texas - 4/10/10

The runner never has to slide.  However, if the runner causes the pivot man to alter his throw, it is interference.  The runner and the batter-runner are both out.

Can a pitcher receive signs from the dugout once he has engaged the rubber?
Mark
Phoenix, AZ, USA - 4/10/10

No.  The catcher can.

On a tag up for a fly ball, the runner can leave the base once the ball is touched or caught? What if the ball hits the fielders glove and bounces in the air and then he catches it. Can that runner advance on the touch or does he have to wait for fielder to have control?
Bill Bridgham
Pleasant Garden, NC - 4/7/10

On the touch.

Runners on 1st & 2nd, 1 out. Batter swings and hits a spinning dribbler down first base line very close to line. First baseman sprinting in gets to ball and kicks ball into first base dugout while ball is still in FOUL territory.  The ball would have definitely gone fair had it not bee touched foul.  Call foul ball, batter returns to box with 1-2 count and runners return base at time of pitch. Offensive coach says ball cannot be intentionally kick out of bounds if it could have become a fair ball.
Gary Shafer
Canbridge City, Indiana - 3/18/10

This is legal.  Once that ball is touched in any manner in foul territory by the defense, it is a foul ball.

About the February rules answer. "Bases loaded, one out and a 1 and 1 count.  The runner on third gets a good jump and tries to steal home.  As he slides over the plate, the pitch hits him in the strike zone and bounces a few feet away.  The catcher recovers in time to nail the runner from second trying for third." Suppose the pitch is actually the third strike, which would have recorded the third out of the inning. Does the run still count?
Jason
Manassas, VA - 3/1/10

No.  With 2 strikes and 2 out, the pitch is strike 3 and the half-inning is over. (6.05n)

What happens if a player is listed twice on the line up card and it isn't caught at the beginning of the game? It means that one player is not on the line up card. If that player comes up and gets a hit and then an appeal is made, does the hit count?
Joe
Templeton, California - 2/11/10

This is a correctable error and should be picked up by the plate umpire at the pre-game conference.  That is one of the main reasons he looks over the line-up cards. That being said, I do not believe this is specifically covered anywhere, which leaves it up to the umpire to make a ruling - 9.03(c). If the player comes up, gets a hit and an appeal is made, I would deny it.  There is no definitive batting out of order here. If the opposing manager waits until the batter should be coming up again in a second spot in the order and an appeal is made, it is still denied since the offense can legally put up the correct batter. In the unlikely event the player comes up a second time in a second spot in the order and completes his turn at bat and then an appeal is made, I would grant the appeal.  However, I can't see this ever actually happening.

I was recently told by an academy coach that NFHS rules do not allow the top edge of the pitcher's glove to be above chin level when he comes to his set position. Is this true, false, or a gray area?
Lee Flippin
Woodside, California - 2/3/10

Years ago the rules stated that the entire glove had to be below the chin. Currently, only a portion of the glove must be below the chin.

SteveO

 

 

 

 

 

Created February 14, 2010
Steve Orinick is not liable in any way for any event or situation whatsoever arising from these responses, including errors, omissions or negative consequences, perceived or otherwise.  All answers are purely personal opinion.  Proceed at your own risk! Check with your local association for specific interpretations.
Answers copyright 2010-2012 Steve Orinick.  All rights reserved.

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